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yes well

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as we get older and older I'm 77 right

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now

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procedure am I going to have to clean

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the blood doesn't work

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then I've got probably

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a few more months

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to make it before my kidneys shut down

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you know

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so that's kind of why

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I'm kind of going along with a interview

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at this time

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you're seeing that what you went through

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is just too important for people not to

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know about yeah

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yeah

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can you just

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let can we start at the beginning with

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your military career and just walk

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through what exactly your experiences

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drafted into the military

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and got into the U.S army

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after that I was sent to the signal

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Training Center

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Society in eastern United States what

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year would this be 58

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I went through the signal training

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course

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and at that time

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I went through the radio teletype course

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and also the cryptography course crypto

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they had five instructors that were

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getting out of military service

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so they pulled the

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top five students

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and I was third in class so I got pulled

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as an instructor

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now were you at this time also working

39
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yet for CIA no not yet no

40
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have to one day my boss came to me

41
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and he

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said how would you like to you know make

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some extra money

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and I said oh money is good

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so he's

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plain to me that I could

47
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he could put it through like

48
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would have to get a top secret White

49
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House cue clearance

50
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for the job you know

51
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and I thought boy it must be a pretty

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exclusive thing

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and I said well what is this and he said

54
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that I'm director for the CIA

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for Eastern United States you know

56
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and I said oh I didn't know that and he

57
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said you weren't supposed to

58
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after about six weeks

59
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my security clearance came through

60
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and I got my CIA card it was an ID card

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like a credit card or I could just go up

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to the door and slice it walk right in

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and my uh

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name at that time I used to

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artificial name too never used my real

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name

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I started working with him

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on the project he was on

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and that was a

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Blue Book

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which was kind of personally a fraud

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do you think some of the Blue Book cases

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were completely fictitious yes

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but the cases that we got

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came from

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I think it was Fort Bellville

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Maryland Fort Belvoir yeah and it didn't

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come from the Pentagon or it didn't come

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from CIA headquarters

80
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but we would get reports about a certain

81
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siding that they had in Mexico or

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Italy or something like that

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and then we would have to we had people

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that would

85
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follow through on it

86
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I go out and interview the people

87
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see if they were not cases or if it was

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real they'd be going overseas frequently

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I I wasn't but I always stayed stay wise

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but uh

91
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the people we had working with us from

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the CIA would do that we would get like

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a new report

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probably

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a couple times a week

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I was coming into the army Fresh Off The

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Farm you know so I really didn't much

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now just anything but my boss filled me

99
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in on Project Blue Book and what they

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had found so far

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as far as

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Grays and aliens and

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and the Roswell incident how did you

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feel when this first got dumped on you

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when you first learned about it I was

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just kind of overwhelmed

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with all of this you know

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and I said to him I don't know if I'm

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gonna be able to be a judge of this type

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of thing what's real what's not

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what I don't have much knowledge of it

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you know

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so what did he say he said well we have

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to build information as we go

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and you'll see

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how this thing is working out and then

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the other thing is of course you really

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weren't able to tell family or or close

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friends obviously I couldn't tell

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anybody

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fact I

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I had to take a vow that I wouldn't tell

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anybody a lot of it for

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40 years and more of it for 50 years

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which is up in

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2010. you're doing all this crypto work

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you're looking at images photographs

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video

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it's 1958 maybe the fall of 58.

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what happened after this at that time

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the Project Blue Book thing kind of went

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pot you know if you remember back in

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those days they kind of declared it as a

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nothing you know right and they were

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telling the world all UFOs are

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misidentifications hoaxes

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yes psychological issues whatever yes

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yeah

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so my boss came to me and he says we've

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both got a new assignment

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and he says oh I said where are we going

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oh he says we're going to the Capitol

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I'm gonna be part of the Eisenhower

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push he's trying to find out

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something about

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all about these aliens that mj-12 was

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supposed to find out but never did never

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send back reports to him

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the mj-12 the UFO control group were

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they calling it mj-12 at that time yes

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they called us in went into the Oval

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Office

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and

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ice in prison Eisenhower was there in

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Nixon

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and they said

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we called

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people in from

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mj-12 from Area 51 and this

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for but they told us that the government

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had no jurisdiction over what they were

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doing

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so being a general past general

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didn't tell him to go to hell without

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any

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real good reason yeah so he said uh

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I want you and

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your boss to fly out there

169
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I want you to give him a personal

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message

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and he says I want you to tell them

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whoever is in charge

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tell them that

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to get in they have this week coming

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week to get into Washington and to

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report to me and if they don't

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I'm gonna get the first Army from

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Colorado and we're gonna go over I'm

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gonna take the base over I don't care

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what kind of classified material you got

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we're gonna rip this thing apart

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Eisenhower was going to invade yes area

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51. yeah with the first Army

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so you go out with your Superior yes you

185
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fly out

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you land what happens can you describe

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this whole process what you saw hey took

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us the 13 or 15 miles south to S4

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and like different garage door openings

190
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and in these garage door openings

191
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they had like different sauce for crafts

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every first one had

193
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Roswell Crafton

194
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apparently every alien

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that was in a diet except for a couple

196
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so you see the Roswell craft and what

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are some of the others that you see well

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the Roswell craft was

199
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really strange because it looked like

200
00:10:10,930 --> 00:10:07,790
we could Rock next to it and you could

201
00:10:14,329 --> 00:10:10,940
rock it the whole thing from the weed

202
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,339
150 300 pounds could they tell what the

203
00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:17,279
source of power was of this craft yeah

204
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reverse gravitational thing of some kind

205
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in fact one

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the

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in a three by five card

208
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I guess they are different types of

209
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Grays and so on how did you see that

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evidence well at the uh

211
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later on

212
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it is for

213
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we viewed the autopsy film

214
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and then the colonel said

215
00:11:06,370 --> 00:11:04,740
what we've got in here is we're

216
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interviewing

217
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,240
hey gray alien

218
00:11:14,509 --> 00:11:12,000
all right right there how did you feel

219
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:14,519
at that moment

220
00:11:21,230 --> 00:11:18,000
well I thought boy we had no idea we

221
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were we'll see the real thing all we saw

222
00:11:24,769 --> 00:11:22,700
was filmed

223
00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:24,779
he had to have a little bit of heart

224
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racing at that moment

225
00:11:33,889 --> 00:11:30,660
my boss was able to go in

226
00:11:35,569 --> 00:11:33,899
and had a like a partial interview with

227
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,579
him so what did this gray alien look

228
00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:37,440
like could you describe him a little bit

229
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this one looked a little bit Oriental

230
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so I'm I'm just wondering if if it

231
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looked Almost Human what about this

232
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didn't look human

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skin tone

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00:12:02,210 --> 00:11:56,220
and

235
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how was its head size compared with a

236
00:12:09,290 --> 00:12:07,190
brain was kind of

237
00:12:12,410 --> 00:12:09,300
kind of a little bit bigger

238
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and some of them know this was very very

239
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:13,800
small

240
00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:17,279
and the ears were just like holes

241
00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:19,019
mouth was

242
00:12:23,449 --> 00:12:21,660
very small

243
00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:23,459
now why were they bringing you out here

244
00:12:28,430 --> 00:12:26,760
at all anyway to see an alien what was

245
00:12:31,130 --> 00:12:28,440
the point

246
00:12:32,750 --> 00:12:31,140
go back and tell the president they

247
00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:32,760
actually had one

248
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:35,459
so he did not know at this point no if

249
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:39,180
there was an alien at S4

250
00:12:42,350 --> 00:12:40,980
what did you do then at area were you

251
00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:42,360
done or did you have other things to do

252
00:12:49,069 --> 00:12:45,060
yeah so basically we were could have

253
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:49,079
done went back to area 51. they took us

254
00:12:55,790 --> 00:12:51,720
into the main building

255
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:55,800
and there we saw a U2 which of course we

256
00:13:02,629 --> 00:12:59,279
didn't know existed

257
00:13:07,129 --> 00:13:02,639
and he uh

258
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:07,139
a model of the SR-71 the Blackbird

259
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:08,579
so

260
00:13:15,970 --> 00:13:11,639
but like I mentioned earlier was not a

261
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,829
but an early version did you go directly

262
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,639
to Washington after this

263
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:22,380
where did you go somewhere else how did

264
00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:25,500
they get did you fly regular Airline we

265
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:28,260
flew back to to uh

266
00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:31,139
the commuter plane backed to the air

267
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base and then took

268
00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:36,660
the President Eisenhower's Lockheed

269
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:38,040
Elektra

270
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back to Washington you and your

271
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,279
supervisor Superior officer and now

272
00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:46,320
you're meeting with the president

273
00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:50,040
yes can you describe this well we met

274
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,240
with him

275
00:13:57,550 --> 00:13:53,279
in

276
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:57,560
boy the second story of the old OSS

277
00:14:02,829 --> 00:14:00,360
Warehouse building

278
00:14:08,569 --> 00:14:02,839
and

279
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,579
also

280
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:11,040
who rules there

281
00:14:17,329 --> 00:14:14,160
so he asked us what was going on

282
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:17,339
and we told them about the alien the

283
00:14:27,050 --> 00:14:25,430
black projects and so on and it was just

284
00:14:30,769 --> 00:14:27,060
totally shocked

285
00:14:32,750 --> 00:14:30,779
he appeared for the first time to be

286
00:14:38,269 --> 00:14:32,760
worried

287
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,279
I would think that Eisenhower would I

288
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:41,040
mean he certainly knew that

289
00:14:46,189 --> 00:14:44,220
flying saucers were real he knew that

290
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there were aliens

291
00:14:50,509 --> 00:14:48,420
so I guess I'm just wondering what would

292
00:14:51,949 --> 00:14:50,519
he have been you know really surprised

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about

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uh

295
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:57,300
surprised about the black programs

296
00:15:03,350 --> 00:14:59,760
he's never said

297
00:15:06,410 --> 00:15:03,360
gotta keep this thing completely Secret

298
00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:06,420
you know can't talk about this

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00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,060
your actual name

300
00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:12,240
is I mean the name you grew up with that

301
00:15:17,090 --> 00:15:13,740
was a different name than what you had

302
00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:17,100
in this I never never used it in the CIA

303
00:15:23,629 --> 00:15:20,760
at all now what about today

304
00:15:25,310 --> 00:15:23,639
you're going on the public record

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00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:25,320
and

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00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,139
this is still sensitive information even

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00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:30,720
though earlier you talked about

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you know security oath set maybe expire

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after a certain period of time but

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you're still concerned

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00:15:42,889 --> 00:15:40,199
phone call

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00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:42,899
her phone was tapped and they got my

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00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:47,040
phone number and through the telephone

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company they're able to find me

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00:15:56,509 --> 00:15:53,760
and so on when they found you what

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00:15:58,670 --> 00:15:56,519
happened I was going to a grocery store

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00:16:01,730 --> 00:15:58,680
two guys and a

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black suits come out of a black Lincoln

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00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:03,899
Town Car

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00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:07,500
and came over to see me and they told me

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00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:08,940
that

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00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:10,680
I'd better not

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00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:14,940
publish anything or talk to Linda about

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00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,980
any more things

325
00:16:22,970 --> 00:16:19,440
so at that time

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00:16:26,090 --> 00:16:22,980
I did you know I stopped

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00:16:29,689 --> 00:16:26,100
that was enough to intimidate you yes

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00:16:32,569 --> 00:16:29,699
rather remain anonymous never show my

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00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:32,579
face on anything

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00:16:38,749 --> 00:16:35,519
really thank you for doing this

331
00:16:42,889 --> 00:16:38,759
yes this was

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00:16:44,569 --> 00:16:42,899
I guess kind of a good idea because I

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00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:44,579
feel much better

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00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:51,710
I kind of feel like there's a load off

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my shoulders really